Comments on: Religion is an obstacle on the road to peace… http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/ Ugo Cei's Weblog Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:08:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Santiago Gala http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149908 Santiago Gala Sun, 06 Jan 2008 18:52:06 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149908 It is exactly the same discourse here in Spain. Some people thinks it is the Franquist remnants in the Spanish church, but I think it is the Catholic Church hierarchy as a whole. Last week a bishop was interviewed and said awful words, almost justifying child abuse. Next another bishop threatens that "if the goverment stays laic, it could be the end of the democracy", a strong thing to say in a country that saw a military coup d'Etat, supported by the Church, and a civil war after, just 60 years ago. Massimiliano. I agree that the problem is inside the men: this brings more responsibility into the hierarchy of the Church. They are trying to interfere in the civil goverment and laws, pushing people to disobey legitimate laws, etc. It is exactly the same discourse here in Spain. Some people thinks it is the Franquist remnants in the Spanish church, but I think it is the Catholic Church hierarchy as a whole. Last week a bishop was interviewed and said awful words, almost justifying child abuse. Next another bishop threatens that “if the goverment stays laic, it could be the end of the democracy”, a strong thing to say in a country that saw a military coup d’Etat, supported by the Church, and a civil war after, just 60 years ago.

Massimiliano. I agree that the problem is inside the men: this brings more responsibility into the hierarchy of the Church. They are trying to interfere in the civil goverment and laws, pushing people to disobey legitimate laws, etc.

]]> By: Today’s News » Religion is an ostacle on the road to peace… http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149877 Today’s News » Religion is an ostacle on the road to peace… Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:13:20 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149877 [...] post by ugo and software by Elliott Back This entry is filed under 9898. You can follow any responses to this [...] […] post by ugo and software by Elliott Back This entry is filed under 9898. You can follow any responses to this […]

]]> By: Massimiliano http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149783 Massimiliano Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:16:52 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149783 Unfortunately the human nature not change during the time You can change the name Joushua and place (Jericho) with N.Ireland or Libano. The story it's the same, the men make war and use the religion as mask, but if it's not the religion, the men find another flag, soccer team, driver, colour of the skin, intellectual thought, lobbies. The problem it's inside of man Unfortunately the human nature not change during the time
You can change the name Joushua and place (Jericho) with N.Ireland or Libano.
The story it’s the same, the men make war and use the religion as mask,
but if it’s not the religion, the men find another flag, soccer team, driver, colour of the skin, intellectual thought, lobbies.
The problem it’s inside of man

]]> By: ugo http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149752 ugo Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:58:41 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149752 > As a many human things, the religion have a good start (i.e. mens and womens all equal, and love between them), I don't see much brotherly love and equality in the Bible, the only religious text I'm fairly familiar with. Did Joshua tear down the Jericho walls to have a party with the inhabitants? I guess not. The idea that all humans are equal is definitely *not* grounded in religion. > In N. Ireland, Lebanon, Israel, religion it’s a flag to gather the forces vs the occupant (us-vs-them). Exactly, that's why I wrote that they'd be much better off without. > As a many human things, the religion have a good start (i.e. mens and womens all equal, and love between them),

I don’t see much brotherly love and equality in the Bible, the only religious text I’m fairly familiar with. Did Joshua tear down the Jericho walls to have a party with the inhabitants? I guess not.

The idea that all humans are equal is definitely *not* grounded in religion.

> In N. Ireland, Lebanon, Israel, religion it’s a flag to gather the forces vs the occupant (us-vs-them).

Exactly, that’s why I wrote that they’d be much better off without.

]]> By: Massimiliano http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149748 Massimiliano Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:04:23 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149748 As a many human things, the religion have a good start (i.e. mens and womens all equal, and love between them), but the followers very often change the meaning of the message to their advantage (read money). In N. Ireland, Lebanon, Israel, religion it's a flag to gather the forces vs the occupant (us-vs-them). As a many human things, the religion have a good start (i.e. mens and womens all equal, and love between them),
but the followers very often change the meaning of the message to their advantage (read money).
In N. Ireland, Lebanon, Israel, religion it’s a flag to gather the forces vs the occupant (us-vs-them).

]]> By: ugo http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149705 ugo Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:07:51 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149705 Max, I never said religion is the _only_ obstacle on the road to peace. Nevertheless, when religion is used as a means to label people, and especially children, according to the confession of their parents (remember, there are no christian or muslim children, only children of christian and muslim parents), it just makes it more difficult to see through our differences and recognize our commonalities. So, even when it is not the main cause of war, when religion is involved it just tends to exacerbate conflict, as can be seen in N. Ireland, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, India, etc. All religious leaders, with the possible exception of the Dalai Lama, are guilty of creating an us-vs-them situation, never mind how much they refuse to realize this and how much they talk of religion as a force for peace. Bullhsit, I say. Max, I never said religion is the _only_ obstacle on the road to peace.

Nevertheless, when religion is used as a means to label people, and especially children, according to the confession of their parents (remember, there are no christian or muslim children, only children of christian and muslim parents), it just makes it more difficult to see through our differences and recognize our commonalities. So, even when it is not the main cause of war, when religion is involved it just tends to exacerbate conflict, as can be seen in N. Ireland, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, India, etc.

All religious leaders, with the possible exception of the Dalai Lama, are guilty of creating an us-vs-them situation, never mind how much they refuse to realize this and how much they talk of religion as a force for peace. Bullhsit, I say.

]]> By: Massimiliano http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149702 Massimiliano Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:47:03 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149702 I don't agree with the title. Money is an ostacle on the road to peace, Religion it's only a mask, not the root of evil. I don’t agree with the title.
Money is an ostacle on the road to peace,
Religion it’s only a mask, not the root of evil.

]]> By: ugo http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149400 ugo Wed, 02 Jan 2008 07:35:49 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149400 Rich, thanks for pointing this out. I am aware that the situation in Kenya is not because of religious issues. Indeed I wrote that "sectarian hatred is very often grounded in religion", not implying that it is _always_ so. It is also true that clashes between Hamas and Fatah in Palestine and the turmoil in Pakistan are not primarily due to religion, but mostly to politics. However, it's nowhere near true that attacks on traditional marriage are the cause for any of this, while I could come up easily with several examples of situations where religion is either the primary cause or one of the exacerbating factors of a conflict. Conversely, I don't see any conflict in places where gay marriage has been legalized. So the Pope should just shut the fuck up about this issue, I think. Rich, thanks for pointing this out. I am aware that the situation in Kenya is not because of religious issues. Indeed I wrote that “sectarian hatred is very often grounded in religion”, not implying that it is _always_ so. It is also true that clashes between Hamas and Fatah in Palestine and the turmoil in Pakistan are not primarily due to religion, but mostly to politics.

However, it’s nowhere near true that attacks on traditional marriage are the cause for any of this, while I could come up easily with several examples of situations where religion is either the primary cause or one of the exacerbating factors of a conflict. Conversely, I don’t see any conflict in places where gay marriage has been legalized.

So the Pope should just shut the fuck up about this issue, I think.

]]> By: Rich Bowen http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149366 Rich Bowen Wed, 02 Jan 2008 02:35:44 +0000 http://agylen.com/2008/01/01/religion-is-an-obstacle-on-the-road-to-peace/#comment-149366 No, Ugo, this week's violence in Kenya has NOTHING to do with religion. It's a tribal clash, sparked by a shockingly poorly managed election. It has to do with one tribe which has been politically suppressing the other since independence. No, Ugo, this week’s violence in Kenya has NOTHING to do with religion. It’s a tribal clash, sparked by a shockingly poorly managed election. It has to do with one tribe which has been politically suppressing the other since independence.

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